Let's make a Soccer Victor

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Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby weasel on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:13 am

I'd like to put together a crack soccer-ninja team! And you're invited! :toot:

The Soccer Arena thread has grown much too long. The same 6 or so designs keep paper-rock-scissoring each other and the thread will never end in a champion. :(

I've been trying to make an ipecac machine that is resistant to most defenses, but I seem to keep getting bumped out by simpler designs. So I made this thread instead! Let's use it as a prototype bay for our megabeast. I'll post our main designs here and keep track of which one is "best"; feel free to come up with your own solutions or to tweak an old one.

These are the opponents we are trying to defeat. Let's try to beat them all, or failing that, beating as many as possible (post more if you have em!):

Our Enemies:
  • The Sniper: This contraption reaches out for an early kick victory.
  • Basket Wedge: This contraption lays low and scoots under most heavy opponents.
  • Junior: A small contraption that works similarly to Wedge Basket
  • Mobile Radar: This contraption has a forward dish and spinner for a grab and toss attack.
  • Beefy V: This contraption does some suprising damage to larger machines. :siren:
:siren: = The contraption does not win on it's own! If you can make a better iteration that does, please post it!

And these are the contraptions we are building to overcome all. If a design can't stand up to multiple opponents after tweaking, it becomes an enemy!

The Contenders:
  • The Guardsman: Defends against many! :champ:
  • Heavy Duty: Defends against sniper and seals off his own goal if pushed too hard. Difficult to beat but isn't mobile.
  • The Rainbow: This contraption is slow and heavy but has a strong toss attack.
  • Behemoth: A solidly built rear catch and double-forward-flingers.
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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby weasel on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:20 am

So here is my Guardsman design: http://fantasticcontraption.com/?designId=858793

guardsman.PNG
Guardsman
guardsman.PNG (12.7 KiB) Viewed 1303 times


It has trouble beating Heavy Duty but has little problem with anything else. Some design features:

- (#1) A raisable rear defense pike. This stick lifts up pretty high to defend against overhead-tossing attacks and settles back into a nice sloping catch. The current iteration of this pike is a little unstable and acts very different with minor tweaks; that should be fixed.
- (#2) A rear "foot" that plants against the ground, helping to prevent against pushback. The foot also has a tether limiting it's range of motion, making flipping the contraption onto it's back quite difficult.
- (#3) Forward spinner tries to toss the ball overhead of the opponent, usually as return fire. There are some problems feeding the ball to this spinner effectively.
- (#4) Throbbing Bulldozer scoop - I found that linking the bulldozer scoop to the forward wheel gets a whole lot of shoving action, and ruins most machines that would normally try to crawl over or press against your contraption.
- (#5) A small rod sitting unsupported out front makes it quite difficult to wedge underneath the contraption
- (#6) None of the wheels are connected together; each defensive system is completely self regulated. The tradeoff is (comparitively) poor traction, but if linked the whole thing is prone to jamming.

I'm fairly hopeful that with some tweaks this one can do a good job. It just has no defense against very good or long range overhead shots. The pike isn't quite tall enough. I'm wondering if maybe adding a "leave it behind" ramp (with a chain tether) might be an effective (if boring) defense?

Also converting the forward spinner to a forward-shooting-pike can jam up the gears of most flingers but I'm not sure how effective it is.
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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby NightStryke on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:21 am

A small tweak to the Mobile Radar makes it win on its own:

http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=859046


I also rather liked my Behemoth:

http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=859146

Could maybe use some more modifications, but I gave a lot of thought to defense against different types of contraptions while making it.


EDIT: I'm also not sure that we should allow stationary contraptions. They were against the rules for quite a long time, until most of the regulars stopped playing and people stopped interpreting the rule the same way.
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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby OfficiallyHaphazard on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:30 am

NightStryke wrote:I also rather liked my Behemoth:

http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=859146

Could maybe use some more modifications, but I gave a lot of thought to defense against different types of contraptions while making it.


EDIT: I'm also not sure that we should allow stationary contraptions. They were against the rules for quite a long time, until most of the regulars stopped playing and people stopped interpreting the rule the same way.



Aye, that Behemoth had a good winning streak.

Also, I am in complete agreement with the "no stationary" contraptions rule. I am glad you made this thread :)
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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby weasel on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:33 am

Added your additions, NightStryke.

NightStryke wrote:EDIT: I'm also not sure that we should allow stationary contraptions. They were against the rules for quite a long time, until most of the regulars stopped playing and people stopped interpreting the rule the same way.


Yeah, I updated the page one post on the soccer thread about station contraptions. I'm inclined to allow them though if they can win on their own, which very few can manage. :)
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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby NightStryke on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:43 am

I made a couple modifications to the Behemoth:

http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=859769

I think that raising the front wheel, combined with the wedge on the second wheel, will make going underneath it all but impossible, though I haven't tested it. And I'm not sure if the second anchor is a bit much - what do you guys think?
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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby weasel on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:48 am

NightStryke wrote:I made a couple modifications to the Behemoth:

http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=859769

I think that raising the front wheel, combined with the wedge on the second wheel, will make going underneath it all but impossible, though I haven't tested it. And I'm not sure if the second anchor is a bit much - what do you guys think?


I approve of anti-wedge measures, and there's no such thing as 'too much anchor'. I just hope that a good sniper kick won't sail right over it all.
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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby OfficiallyHaphazard on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:49 am

NightStryke wrote:I made a couple modifications to the Behemoth:

http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=859769

I think that raising the front wheel, combined with the wedge on the second wheel, will make going underneath it all but impossible, though I haven't tested it. And I'm not sure if the second anchor is a bit much - what do you guys think?



The second anchor saved you in this way: http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=859971
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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby OfficiallyHaphazard on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:52 am

But it still loses to a well made Mobile Radar: http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=860067


Here is a more defended version of the Radar design: http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=860371

As you can see, it can also win on its own: http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=860451
Last edited by OfficiallyHaphazard on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby Yllnath on Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:58 am

I believe my whipping machine will do fairly well as well.

http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=860242
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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby NightStryke on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:05 am

OfficiallyHaphazard wrote:But it still loses to a well made Mobile Radar: http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=860067

Well, I've been using most of my wheels for movement, so I can sacrifice one to do this: http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=860436
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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby OfficiallyHaphazard on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:06 am

Yllnath wrote:I believe my whipping machine will do fairly well as well.

http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=860242

It doesn't have the strong defenses of a Guardsman: http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=860505
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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby weasel on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:13 am

OfficiallyHaphazard wrote:It doesn't have the strong defenses of a Guardsman: http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=860505


Yep, pretty much a requirement for a champ is to have good wedge protection.
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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby Yllnath on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:27 am

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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby weasel on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:32 am



Watchout for wedgebasket: http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=861311

I think a good wedge defense is having a loose stick out front - that way it'll never lift off the ground, even by accident. Also try to make your contraption forward-heavy, so it's less liable to tilt backwards with some pressure. A good bulldozer scoop usually does the trick (but removes the ability to have a forward flail, unless it is external)

edit: Here's some updates I made: http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=861674

You can see I converted your forward anti-wedge stick to a loose-dangling style; it is quite successful, but the rest of your machine's design has to be altered a bit to actually do something with the small victory :)

I also made the rear foot a bit more loose. After doing so your contraption promptly rolled backwards! It was really really rear-heavy, which makes flipping it easy. I moved the rear wheel backwards to compensate.

edit2: http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=861962

Made some simplifications, unlinked the top two spinners (they were prone to jamming) and added an extra attachment to your bottom wheels (as they were jamming too). Added a mini-bulldozer-scoop to catch the opponent and lift slightly. It doesn't win, but it doesn't loose and it kicks ♥♥♥ to boot. :P
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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby Masterjts on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:46 am

The problem is that when you design a contraption you take into effect the other person's contraptions. There is no one solution that will be king and since the other person will always be able to see how your contraption works ahead of time they will always be able to overcome you given enough time to tweek it.

What we need is a way to build two contraptions independent of each other and then load them into the program. This can not be done at the moment but maybe one day it might. Until then what we should do is redo the contest so that two people build contraptions and then a third party puts them on the board as close to the original designs as possible. Then you will have an actual contest.
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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby weasel on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:52 am

Masterjts wrote:The problem is that when you design a contraption you take into effect the other person's contraptions. There is no one solution that will be king and since the other person will always be able to see how your contraption works ahead of time they will always be able to overcome you given enough time to tweek it.

What we need is a way to build two contraptions independent of each other and then load them into the program. This can not be done at the moment but maybe one day it might. Until then what we should do is redo the contest so that two people build contraptions and then a third party puts them on the board as close to the original designs as possible. Then you will have an actual contest.


I'm convinced there's going to be a contraption so expertly built, that it will be very, very difficult to defeat it - no matter what contraption type you design.

Failing that, I'd want to build a machine that can defeat as many other machines as possible!
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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby NightStryke on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:53 am

OfficiallyHaphazard wrote:Here is a more defended version of the Radar design: http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=860371

I made some more modifications and tweaks, but I can't seem to overcome the defensive one:

http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=861992

I'd need a flinger, which I don't have, nor do I have room for one.
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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby Yllnath on Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:59 am

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Re: Let's make a Soccer Victor

Postby weasel on Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:00 am

NightStryke wrote:I made some more modifications and tweaks, but I can't seem to overcome the defensive one:

http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=861992

I'd need a flinger, which I don't have, nor do I have room for one.


That actually looks like a fairly good design. Remember, as a champ, we assume a winning position - as long as we aren't defeated, we're good to go! Stalemates are as good as wins in this prototype bay.

edit: might want to beef up your wedge defense: http://FantasticContraption.com/?designId=862364
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