???

[zhyrek]

It seems to do that in several areas, plus the places you circled. Although they aren't exact inverse functions. Why is it only repeated in random corners of the graph?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal

"Fractals are typically self-similar patterns, where self-similar means they are "the same from near as from far" Fractals may be exactly the same at every scale, or as illustrated in Figure 1, they may be nearly the same at different scales. The definition of fractal goes beyond self-similarity per se to exclude trivial self-similarity and include the idea of a detailed pattern repeating itself."

And watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_GBwuYuOOs
You will notice that the same patterns appear again and again

[zhyrek]

I'm also able to replicate the effect in modified designs of the OP one: http://www.fantasticcontraption.com/?designId=11775181

Delete one of the wood rods, and it "works" (not really, it completely misses the general area of the goal)

However, i suspect the patterns of these would be different than those I have found.

Edit: Aaaand... 0-29 is done

[jdccdj1]

Hypothesis: The design fails if the bottom half has one more extra wood rod than the top half. The design succeeds if they are equal.

it only succeeds up to 6, then it fails and wood, water, or wheels all have the same outcome...
also, i got conflicting numbers thru 3 test samples:

went from 1 - 22 wood rods adding 1 at a time above the imaginary line and no wood rods below the imaginary line...
recorded which designs and # of rods passed and which designs and # of rods failed...
all 3 times i did this, the passes and fails were different with the only common # being 2 rods failed in all 3 tests...
also, i tried 1 test starting with 22 wood rods above the imaginary line and no wood rods below the imaginary line removing
one at a time and got the same outcome as the 3rd test...have no idea why different results or why this glitch exists...

[zhyrek]

Hypothesis: The design fails if the bottom half has one more extra wood rod than the top half. The design succeeds if they are equal.

it only succeeds up to 6, then it fails and wood, water, or wheels all have the same outcome...
also, i got conflicting numbers thru 3 test samples:

went from 1 - 22 wood rods adding 1 at a time above the imaginary line and no wood rods below the imaginary line...
recorded which designs and # of rods passed and which designs and # of rods failed...
all 3 times i did this, the passes and fails were different with the only common # being 2 rods failed in all 3 tests...
also, i tried 1 test starting with 22 wood rods above the imaginary line and no wood rods below the imaginary line removing
one at a time and got the same outcome as the 3rd test...have no idea why different results or why this glitch exists...

Yea jdc, that was my old hypothesis, back before I did the graph.

Also, I am unsure if having the wood rods attached to each other affects the results. Is it possible you might have done that?
Edit: I've tested it a bit, and it seems that connecting the wood rods has no effect on the results. So there must be some other reason your data is variate. Hmm... mac or pc?

[jdccdj1]

pc..i did connect the rods...also, did some experimenting with rod orientation...try 8 connected rods
horizontal above..fail?...try 8 con above and below..fail?..now try 8 con vertical bisecting the imaginary line..pass?
if all 3 are true for you, then i don't think it's my system that gave me erroneous results...it could my error...will try
again in the morning...but this is a cool mystery and i like what you've done so far!

[rianbay812]

while we're on the subject of weird glitches...
http://www.fantasticcontraption.com/?designId=11775720
wtf

[zhyrek]

while we're on the subject of weird glitches...
http://www.fantasticcontraption.com/?designId=11775720
wtf

O.o

pc..i did connect the rods...also, did some experimenting with rod orientation...try 8 connected rods
horizontal above..fail?...try 8 con above and below..fail?..now try 8 con vertical bisecting the imaginary line..pass?
if all 3 are true for you, then i don't think it's my system that gave me erroneous results...it could my error...will try
again in the morning...but this is a cool mystery and i like what you've done so far!

No, I have a pc as well, and theres no evidence that 7/vista makes a difference. So I guess that idea is struck down

Hmm... I might have an explanation for the bisecting rods. Perhaps a rod that exists in both top and bottom counts as 1/2 top, 1/2 bottom? I'm gonna test that against my graph, see what might be up

Edit: After about 12 spotchecks, it seems to be a remarkably accurate prediction. Also, having 1/2 values for this allows us to have 2x better resolution. :D

Edit2: Not really for the 2x resolution, since we can never have just half, so we cant have, say, 2 rods in the top, and 1/2 rod in the bottom.

[jdccdj1]

while we're on the subject of weird glitches...
http://www.fantasticcontraption.com/?designId=11775720
wtf

rainbay-
this one probably has to do with the over-lapping of the static/dynamic (drag) and the
penetration of the dynamic into the water rod. the dynamic and rod are trying to separate,
but held back loosely by the tightness until enough "energy" builds up to overcome the
drag...kinda like the energy discharged when a wound spring is released...anyway, that's
my guess

zhyrek - cool!...gotta run for the time being, but i look forward to what you find out

[zhyrek]

Actually, the graph seems to be isometrically patterned, and the addition of adding a half to both sides allows me to restructure the graph to BE isometric.

That's what Im doing next

[jdccdj1]

hey zhyrek-

i think i have enough data to predict passes and failures ie. how many rods above or below
to produce a pass or fail...
i did 2 tests to collect data but found a pattern:
1st test with 1 rod above and 1-51 rods below
2nd test with 2 rods above and 1-52 rods below

with this data i was able to predict let's say a (3,9) as a fail or a (4,23) as a fail or a (5,36) as a pass, etc.
if you want the data, i can pm you with it

[zhyrek]

hey zhyrek-

i think i have enough data to predict passes and failures ie. how many rods above or below
to produce a pass or fail...
i did 2 tests to collect data but found a pattern:
1st test with 1 rod above and 1-51 rods below
2nd test with 2 rods above and 1-52 rods below

with this data i was able to predict let's say a (3,9) as a fail or a (4,23) as a fail or a (5,36) as a pass, etc.
if you want the data, i can pm you with it

I would very much like the data, and if it's not too much to ask, a few example designs showing how you placed the wood rods.
I'd like to compare it with my own data :D